The following abridged interview with Annie of Tute Nere zine was
conducted on Valentines Day, 2002. The collective has since disbanded.
What does the name Tute Nere mean?
It means �Black Overalls�in Italian. I was overseas this summer and
in Italy for a brief bit during the protest against the G8 in Genoa. The
newspaper had this layout where the far right activists who were protesting--like
Bono from U2 and some other people, and then it was this arrow and at the
far left there was this cartoon picture of an anarchist with a brick in
his hand and all in black and it said, �Anarchists, the Black Bloc or Black
Overalls.�Because they had �Tute Bianci,�which was �White Overalls,�
so they just equated the Black Bloc with the similar style of White Overalls,
which isn�t true, because there�s a divergence of opinion.
What�s the "White Overalls"?
That�s Ya Basta, they have the padded suits in protests. There�s a
lot of political discrepancy between the two groups, especially in Genoa,
because there was discrepancy between the anarchists and the Genoa social
forums; they kind of pushed the anarchists down and said they were the
�bad protesters.�And a lot of anarchists felt that Tute Bianci
really played to the media and lost sight of what�s important in the movement.
Were you there when that guy got shot?
No, the days were very crazy and the cops, the carabinieri were traveling
in small pockets, so everybody, even people who were not engaging in property
destruction or more militant tactics--you�d be like walking down the street
and you�d walk into a pocket of rolex replica watches cops. And then you�d cut a corner and then
there�s be another pocket of cops and people standing off with the cops.
Everybody got divided in these small little clumps. So we didn�t hear about
it until we got back to the media center that night. But where we were
they apparently discharged live ammo into the air--not at anyone. It was
a pretty emotional time, especially the raid on the media center and the
school the next night. For a lot of us, it reminded us why we were against
capitalism in the first place.
When did Tute Nere start?
It started in August, 2001; I got back from Europe in August, and I
really thought this was an important idea. I had a friend in Barricada
collective in Boston. I always give him a hard time because there�s no
women in this collective, and he finally turned to me, because I was traveling
with him a bit this summer, and he said �Why don�t you start your own collective
that does what we do?�And was like �yeah, why don�t I start a collective
that does this sort of thing.�So that�s how it came about. Originally
there was a male member, but as fake rolex time progressed we decided it would be
best for it to be all women so we could serve as a way for other women
to get more involved in anarchism and radical politics, radical thought,
and radical action. We feel it�s easier for other women to identify with
an all women group.
What�s the background of the members? Are you coming from the punk
scene, radical activism, or what?
The majority of us did come out of the punk rock subculture, which
I think is more common in the United States, because you find your way
into punk and then you find your way into anarchism and radical thought.
But one of our members is still full-on punk rock all the way. Some of
us have drifted from that as we�ve gotten a bit older. One good thing about
punk rock is that it does help people find their way into anarchism, but
I think the problem is in the United States punk rock and anarchism are
so linked a lot of times when people grow out of punk they grow out of
their politics. And it can also be kind of isolating, because if you�re
a middle-aged family man, or a middle-aged woman, from a different class
or ethnic group, the punk rock scene can be very isolating because it tends
to be white, teenage boys, and omega replica usually middle class. That�s one thing we
want to work on in the collective, because we feel like it�s a certain
sector of society that always seems to be involved in these things.
Why did you guys decide to do a zine when there are so many other
anarchist journals, particularly the Northeastern Anarchist, which Tute
Nere has ties to?
One of the reasons is that we are a supporter collective within NEFAC
[Northeastern Federation of Anarcho-Communists], which is what the Northeastern
Anarchist comes out of. It�s the English paper, and then Ruptures
is the French paper of NEFAC. NEFAC is very much male, and it�s like most
anarchist groups in most of my experience, and I�ve been active for 4 or
5 years, it�s kind of the same people that put out everything, that do
everything, et cetera. It�s not like they�re a dominating force, but other
people are either too busy or have other priorities, so the work falls
back on them. We thought it was important to have a monthly anarchist magazine
that came out of a militant female perspective. Because you don�t see that
much. Even though there�s Northeastern Anarchist, and another one we�re
compared to, and we�re even called their sister, is the Barricada Collective
(Boston), which is another NEFAC publication. They�re an excellent magazine,
but it�s a male perspective. Being a woman who reads it, I enjoy it very
much, but there are still female issues that aren�t dealt with. I�m not
a feminist--but I think I�m not the only one in the collective that�s not
a feminist--and I don�t label myself a feminist; I believe our ultimate
goal is getting rid of the capitalist structure, etc. But there are certain
issues that in order to do that, we need more women involved in this, just
like we need more minorities, we need different ethnicities, we need all
these different aspects involved. I think one of the crucial ways of doing
that is giving something, like a magazine, that people can get their hands
on and that are like �Oh, these are women putting this out, these are women
doing these things, these are women organizing, going to these events,
writing these pieces--hmm, I bet I could do this too; I�m interested in
this.ï¿?nbsp; That was a primary reason we did this. Another reason was
that in DC, there are no NEFAC collectives. All anarchist federations have
flaws, but all of us have a belief that anarchist federations and unions
are crucial to organizing a structure that will lead to our ultimate goal,
etc. There�s collectives in Boston, Philly, Connecticut, all over Canada,
Baltimore--but DC was lacking. We thought this was pretty crucial too--to
have something in DC that was a base for this as well, to network that
structure. Not networking in the typical business sense, but having people
in each place so they can educate and move and work with local communities
to create solid bases throughout the United States, not just in one or
two locations.
My other question in why you would do a zine has to do with the success
of the Internet as a tool for networking the anti capitalist convergence.
What are your thoughts on the value of a print zine given the power of
the Internet as a tool?
I think the Internet is a good tool, of course. I�m kind of old fashioned.
I like having a book or a magazine or something in front of me that I can
hold in my hands, and turn the pages and go back to if I want to, and scribble
notes on. And it�s something to remember, to keep with you. I have the
tendency to save most of the magazines I pick up or buy or subscribe to.
I think I have We Dare Be Free�s or Sabate papers from ages ago, years
ago. It helps you track what people were thinking and when. I know the
Internet can do that, but it�s not as hands on. There�s just something
to be said for old-fashioned print medium. I think it�s something that�s
very important, because you still have massive newspapers like the Washington
Post and the Washington Times putting out a print medium just like all
these other places. So we have to provide as many options and ways for
people to get information about anarchism, about what we�re doing, and
what we do, as mainstream society. That�s our only way to combat corporate
media lies and government repression--getting things out to people in more
than one way.
This kind of gets to distribution, because one problem with e-mail
lists is that they preach to the converted--you�re only on the mailing
list if you�re somewhat in line with those ideas--so the value of a print
publication has to do with people outside the movement finding the magazine.
Are you distributing it outside movement channels?
As of now, we distribute to infoshops, of course, and people have subscribed,
but most of those subscriptions have come through A-Infos posts on the
Internet, or through other magazines--like Northeastern Anarchist ran a
little blurb on us and we got some subscriptions that way. That�s something
we�re still working with. That is definitely something that�s crucial,
getting beyond our circles.
Are you familiar with the Redstockings radical women�s group from
the 70s, and the book they put out called Feminist Revolution?
Yeah. When it comes to anarchism, I myself am much more traditional,
like I�m very European influenced in my style of anarchism, but another
collective member, Jody, she�s been very influenced by feminist anarchism,
and anarcha-feminism, and I think that comes through a lot in our work.
I think it�s a natural influence, because when all of us were getting into
politics, the first thing you look towards is that anarcha-feminist twist,
even though I kind of jutted off into this European style, and we all found
our respective niches within anarchism, you still look for a woman�s perspective
and a woman�s way of identifying. Especially when you�re militant women,
you reach for the books by other militant women or women who really have
their shit together. |
Who else might that be?
I read a book on the Mujeres Libres, which were women who organized
during the Spanish Civil War--and that was a big influence on me, because
they weren�t feminists, and I really identified with that. And even though
they fell into the role of cooking, cleaning and organizing, in more domestic
ways, as well, it was still really inspirational; it made a basic connection
with me. A lot of other individual women that we have known and worked
with have influenced me and other women in the group. A lot of our own
personal experiences really influenced it; I don�t know if it�s from books
or people, but it�s definitely a school of thinking that you pick up as
you come through.
Issue 3 talks about the �anarchist boys club�in the US, and I was
wondering if it was any different than in other underground scenes, like
the punk scene?
To be perfectly honest, no. I think every subculture runs into the
same problems of the main culture; we all have the same issues like racism,
sexism, homophobia, and all this sort of stuff we have to battle with.
Some of us do a better job, which I like to feel the anarchist community
does do a better job with. I remember when I was getting into punk rock,
one of the first guys I dated I went to a show, and he was like �I stand
in the backï¿?and I look around and its like all the girls standing in the
back, holding the jackets and watching the boys. I think you see that in
every subculture as well as in the main culture. I think anarchists really
do try to deal with these things and confront them, which is good, but
there are still problems.
This Restockings book had articles about confronting psychological
terrorism--which is the term they used for the ways women are put down
through psychological or emotional attacks--and from that one article in
issue 3, it seems like that�s still a problem.
Definitely, one of the biggest problems is it�s not so much like a
guy slapping your ass or something. You still feel those same societal
pressures as when you go into a coed classroom as when you go into a coed
collective meeting. A perfect example, in York, PA, there was a World Church
of the Creator meeting, with Anti-Racist Action and Anti-Fascist Response,
and all of us organized to go counter demonstrate, and it went really well.
But we set out earlier in the morning to make sure everything was looking
good and stuff. And one of the guys kept referring to us as �the little
advance team.�We were all women! I don�t think he meant it like �the little
women,�but that was something that just reminds you there�s a ways to
go with this. For me as a woman, when you�re involved on a more personal
level, because most of the time when you find someone you connect with,
you usually share a lot of your same beliefs, and when you�re involved
on a personal level, this is something all of us had in common, the line
gets much more vague between political and personal. It can get really
complicated, and a lot of it seems to fall back on the woman. If a relationship
doesn�t work out, then you�re politically unstable, you�re untrustworthy,
you�re a security risk.
Has that happened to you?
Yeah, that has happened to me. If they do something sexist within the
confines of a personal relationship, then you weren�t supposed to call
them on it. It�s not supposed to be a big deal. That�s another frustrating
thing, because you�re like, here I am talking to you about equality and
working with you when you engaged in really offensive behavior toward me.
It goes both ways. Women do that, too, to men, I can guarantee it. But
it�s seems to be more men to women than women to men, just because the
way society drills it into your head.
Do you think there�s less of that in Europe?
I don�t think it�s less. From my experience and from our European comrades,
the same things still happen, it�s just that anarchism in Europe is further
ahead of us, in a way, and it�s a bigger movement; you do see more women
involved and much more women on the front lines. That surprised me in Genoa
when we were having meetings; I�d look around, and there�d be as many women
like in the delegates meeting as there would be men. But in the United
States when I go to more closed exclusive meetings, it�s usually like,
if I�m lucky, two other females. That may just be number proportions,
but from my time in Europe, when I engaged in political activity, I felt
much more well responded to over there. Men would come up and they wouldn�t
automatically go up to the guy standing next to me and say �What�s going
on.�They�d engage me in conversation. And if I appeared to know something,
they�d say, �Then we�ll talk to you about this, not try to talk to a guy
about this.�That�s something I saw there that I don�t see here as much.
Then again, it�s because there are greater numbers, and the movement there
has been going on a lot longer. The militant tradition in Europe is a lot
more set than it is here, where anarchism puddled out for a while and it�s
coming back.
You started the group and the zine in August, and that was just before
9/11; have those events affected the group?
We�re doing fine, because our beliefs are pretty set. Our concept on
9/11 is that it�s pretty clear and defined. It�s pretty sad when people
die in those acts, I�m not belittling that, but when that sort of death
and terrorism is perpetuated every day in a lot of places, you have to
gain some perspective of it. Most of us felt that way, because most of
us have been doing this and have held anti-capitalist beliefs for a long
time. It didn�t really affect that, and if anything it made a lot of us
feel it�s even more important now to show the connections between capitalism
and US culture that ties into these events and why these events happen.
Not just, �let�s blame it on these people and go bomb them�-there�s all
these complicated issues, and that�s not the answer. Until you deal with
the answer, these things aren�t going to change. If anything, it�s made
us very frustrated, and a lot of people I know--not just in our collective
in particular, but in many collectives and many people in the ACC here
in DC--saw it either shift to an anti-war movement. Most of us are not
�anti-war;�we�re into government war and nationalist war, and this whole
concept of class war. A lot of us aren�t pacifists. But a lot of it moved
to the anti-war movement, or into saying �we should lay low for now.�For
us, we feel it�s more crucial than ever to be in the streets saying �this
is why we�re against capitalism. This just shows the inherent problems
in all these things.ï¿?
There�s an overt stand in favor of radical violence in the mission
statement and editorial content of the zine, and you seemed concerned about
sending me a phone number through e-mail, and I was just wondering if there�d
been any reprisals against the collective or any of the members?
Not as yet, but given the new Patriot Act, and all these other things,
security culture�s very important to people in this movement, I think,
and it�s understandable when you�re a minority faction that�s against the
controlling power. As of now, there�s always a few weird things that happen:
you hear clicking on your phone line, the fact that most likely every one
of your e-mails from the collective account is being monitored, or you�re
trying to cross a border somewhere and you discover your name�s on a list.
That�s another thing.
Did that happen to you?
Yeah. This was pre-collective. I got turned back because apparently
I still had a criminal court case going on, even though the case was dismissed
two weeks prior to me even trying to cross the border. So that was ridiculous.
A lot of people deem it self-defense because you�re going up against forces
that shoot you, that gas you, when you�re trying to establish your right
to be somewhere. And when you don�t recognize them as a legitimate power.
For us it�s not a moral issue, it�s a tactical issue. The perfect example
is I remember watching the news about Seattle and them interviewing anarchists,
and it being on the news for weeks; that same response, I almost guarantee
you, wouldn�t have happened if there hadn�t been that militant anarchist
contingent that engaged in certain tactics. That�s the way the group feels
about this sort of thing. There�s always time, place, organization...it�s
this idea of revolutionary privilege, too; a lot of our comrades don�t
have the privilege to go out in the street and hold a sign. It�s either,
you fight or you�re dead. It�s something we�ll most likely address in an
article. Also, that aspect of militancy in women; we also want other women
to feel like, yeah, if we want to go into a black bloc, we can go into
a black bloc; if we want to organize collective cells, we can organize
collective cells. We can be a part of anarchist history, anarchist theory,
anarchist organizing, whether it is more confrontational tactics or more
pacifistic tactics, because both are present. END
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